Takeaways from former special counsel Jack Smith’s public hearing
By Marshall Cohen, CNN
(CNN) — Former special counsel Jack Smith, who brought two now-defunct criminal cases against President Donald Trump, defended the integrity of his investigation during a combative hearing Thursday on Capitol Hill.
Making his first public appearance before lawmakers, Smith pushed back against Trump’s claims that he was a crooked prosecutor during a hearing that devolved into a partisan Rorschach test about Trump’s actions after losing the 2020 election.
“I am not a politician, and I have no partisan loyalties,” Smith told the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday. “My career has been dedicated to serving our country by upholding the rule of law…I stand by my decisions as special counsel, including my decision to bring charges against President Trump.”
While Smith was testifying, Trump called him a “deranged animal” in a social media post, and also said he hopes Attorney General Pam Bondi “is looking at” supposed misconduct by Smith because “a big price should be paid.”
From 2022 to 2025, Smith led the special counsel’s office at the Justice Department that investigated Trump’s attempts to overturn the 2020 election, and his potential mishandling of classified government documents.
He eventually filed federal charges against Trump in both investigations. But Smith withdrew both cases after Trump’s 2024 election victory, citing longstanding Justice Department rules against prosecuting a sitting president.
Here are takeaways on Smith’s major hearing on Thursday.
Hero or villain?
Republicans painted Smith as an overzealous prosecutor who trampled on constitutional protections to “get” Trump ahead of the 2024 election.
“We should never forget what they did to the guy that we the people elected president twice,” Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the panel, said, reciting a list of grievances dating back to the Trump-Russia probe after the 2016 election, the Trump-Ukraine impeachment in 2019, and more.
GOP Rep. Kevin Kiley pointed out that some of Smith’s moves were reversed by federal judges — and he asked the former special counsel if he made any mistakes.
When Smith said his only regret was not doing more to defend the integrity of his team, Kiley quipped, “No mistakes! There’s that integrity!”
And Rep. Troy Nehls, a Texas Republican, told the former prosecutor, “The crap you were shoveling did not pass the smell test with the American people.”
But Rep. Jamie Raskin, the top Democrat on the panel, hailed Smith as a hero who played a critical role in protecting US democracy at great personal cost.
“Donald Trump says you’re a criminal and you belong in prison,” Raskin said during his opening statement. “Not because you did anything wrong — but because you did everything right. You pursued the facts, you followed the law.”
And later, Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell told Smith, “You, unlike many here, are a man of honor.”
Spat over Congressional phone records
From the start, Republicans grilled Smith over his decision to subpoena phone records for several GOP lawmakers, who have said for months that this was “political weaponization” that violated their constitutional protections.
The phone metadata, known as “toll records,” are not wiretaps and don’t reveal the content of calls. They contain numbers for incoming and outgoing calls, the time of the calls, and the duration of the calls, among other things.
“They got my phone records for two-and-a-half years,” Jordan said. “Even the Democrats said this was wrong. But, of course, we shouldn’t be surprised.”
Rep. Chip Roy, a Texas Republican who said his records were targeted, raised his voice while questioning Smith, chiding him for “your abuse of power.”
But the former special counsel pushed back. He said he needed those phone logs because there was evidence that Trump tried to reach those lawmakers while attempting to delay the election certification on January 6.
“The conspiracy that we were investigating, it was relevant to get toll records to understand the scope of that conspiracy, who they were seeking to coerce, who they were seeking to influence, who was seeking to help them,” he said.
Later, Smith bluntly summed up his view: “My office didn’t spy on anyone.”
‘Catastrophic’ threats to democracy
Smith warned of potentially “catastrophic” threats to democracy when asked about the failure to hold Trump accountable for trying to overturn an election.
“If we do not hold the most powerful people in our society to the same standards of the rule of law, then it can be catastrophic,” Smith said. “Because if they don’t have to follow the law, it’s very easy to understand why people would think they don’t have to follow the law as well.”
Smith continued, “it sends a message that those crimes are okay, that our society accepts that… it can endanger our election process, it can endanger election workers, and ultimately our democracy.”
Earlier, Smith said he was “shocked” on January 6 when he saw the Capitol riot, because “I just never seen anything like that happen in our country.”
He also strongly criticized Trump’s blanket pardons for hundreds of violent Capitol rioters, which Trump granted on his first day in office last year.
“I do not understand why you would mass-pardon people who assaulted police officers,” Smith. “I don’t get it. I never will.”
Smith stuck to the script
Unsurprisingly, Smith maintained discipline and stuck to the script.
His answers throughout the day largely mirrored what he told lawmakers during his private deposition last month. Sometimes it was nearly verbatim.
That’s not only because of limits imposed by a judge for what he could say about the classified documents case, but also because that’s his style as a prosecutor. He hewed closely to the conclusions put forward in his blockbuster final report.
Smith didn’t get chummy with Democrats who heaped praise on him. And he sat quietly when insulted by Republicans, like California Rep. Darrell Issa, who said at the end of his questioning, “I yield back, in disgust of this witness.”
There was also predictable congressional bickering: Democrats complained about Smith getting cut off midway through some answers, and Republicans sniped about their liberal colleagues talking beyond their allotted time.
“Mr. Smith, this is theater,” Democratic Rep. Joe Neguse of Colorado said.
Hearing draws notable attendees
Four former police officers who defended the Capitol on January 6 were in the room to watch the hearing. They are Aquilino Gonell, Harry Dunn, Daniel Hodges and Michael Fanone, who are all now Trump critics.
Many of the Democrats name-dropped these officers and honored their service. One Republican, Nehls, addressed them directly and said US Capitol Police leadership — not Trump — were at fault for the violence that day.
“F—k yourself,” Fanone shouted from his seat in the audience, hardly disguising his comments with a cough.
Outside of the hearing room, a CNN reporter spotted Stewart Rhodes, the former leader of the right-wing militia group known as the Oath Keepers. His presence on the Hill was made possible by Trump, who freed him from prison last year amid his 18-year sentence for seditious conspiracy on January 6.
The judge in Rhodes’ case previously said he must get court approval before ever returning to the Capitol. There’s no indication on the public docket that this happened.
CNN has reached out to Rhodes’ lawyers seeking comment.
CNN’s Holmes Lybrand, Tierney Sneed, Devan Cole and Casey Gannon contributed to this report.
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